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Trouble w/ Tenara thread

Printed From: Sailrite Enterprises, Inc.
Category: Sewing Machines
Forum Name: Industrial Sewing Machines
Forum Discription: The use and maintenance of industrial sewing machines
URL: http://forum.sailrite.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=3653
Printed Date: 12 December 2018 at 2:32am


Topic: Trouble w/ Tenara thread
Posted By: GDAVIS67
Subject: Trouble w/ Tenara thread
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 12:44pm
I am currently working on new enclosure panels for an Express Cruiser style boat using Sunbrella Deluxe, Tenara thread, and my Singer 211. Previously I have only used the Tenara on my Sailrite machine. When I first started this project I went through all of the timing and tuning procedures very carefully and set the thread tension to get the best stitch possible with the Tenara thread. The first couple of steps on the four pieces of this enclosure went without a hitch. Perfect stitches and no problems. This was sewing a single layer of Sunbrella with a ½” hem onto 40 gauge Stratoglass. My problems began when I started to trim the panels out with zippers, Velcro, Velcro flaps. The thicker assemblies began to create what looked like dropped stiches on the bottom side of the assembly. If I slowed my stitching down to a crawl, I could actually hear the thread “breaking” on the bottom side of the stitch, leaving a small amount of broken thread and a loose stitch(s) on the bottom side. This would sometimes only be one stitch, or sometimes multiple stitches. I would also occasionally break the needle side thread while stitching. Since this started I have: completely disassembled the bobbin, bobbin case, hook assembly, and needle. Replaced the needle, cleaned, oiled, and re-timed all bobbin parts. The hook is set as close to the needle as possible without striking, timing is spot on. I did notice a buildup of glue from seam stick gathering on the hook and needle. I have been very diligent about keeping them clean and the bobbin well oiled. Back to sewing last night and the first four seams went perfect. I could run at any speed and no missed stiches. Both seams about 6’ long. On the third panel I went to sew, I began to get the dropped/torn stitch issue back. As I finished that stitch, the last of the thread on the bobbin ran out. When I removed this panel from the machine to remove the bad stitches, I noticed that the last 12” or so got really bad. A massive rat’s nest of thread on the underside. I am out of ideas other than possible the bobbin is not winding properly and that is causing the issue. I am going to try tonight to wind the bobbin holding the thread spool horizontal (currently vertical) while winding and see if that improves the situation. Anyone that has ANY other advice please weigh in. I need to get the project completed and installed soon and I’m spending more time removing stiches that fabricating.
Thanks in advance.



Replies:
Posted By: MattGrant
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 12:50pm
What needle size are you using? Is the Tenara the heavy or standard weight?

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Best Regards,
Matt Grant
Sailrite


Posted By: GDAVIS67
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:01pm
Matt, glad to see you caught this. I am using #19 serv7 needle. I also went back and checked my order and see that I bough Profilen thread not Tenara. All products purchased from Sailrite.


Posted By: MattGrant
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:30pm
That should all work fine. Have you tried reducing needle size? Going to an 18? what I can't explain is why it works for a while and then just stops. I don't think the way you wind the bobbin will matter.What source of information are you using to set the hook rotation?

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Best Regards,
Matt Grant
Sailrite


Posted By: GDAVIS67
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 1:39pm
I’m not certain what you mean by “source of information for setting hook rotation”. If you are talking about the timing, I have a copy of the original operation and setup manual for my machine. It states to have the hook aligned with the center of the needle as the lower timing mark is just below the needle bar support and barely visible on the upstroke.
I have never seen as much residual glue on the needle and hook as I have with this project. I wondered if the thread was getting “stuck” in the residual glue.
The comment about the bobbin winding comes from the fact that when winding a new bobbin, the thread develops little twisted knots as it is feeding onto the bobbin. The bobbin centerline is horizontal during winding and the thread cone is on an overhead tray that is vertical. I have been pinching the thread between my fingers to try to keep the thread from developing a twist knot as it winds onto the spindle.


Posted By: MattGrant
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:37pm
It is a Singer 211 that you are using and I am wondering what reference guide you use to set the timing. Some factory guidebooks are not easy to understand for setting machine timing. But you are getting it to sew which means you are likely setting it correctly. My concern came from a statement you made about the thread snapping around the hook. This is often an indication of a slight timing issue.

Basting tape can cause problems in light assemblies but you are sewing through heavy canvas and clear vinyl. That should clean the needle during sewing. But I suppose it could be the issue, especially if you can't duplicate the issue in sample sewing without basting tape.

For bobbin winding you should never get knots in the wind. The thread spool should be sitting vertical and the cone should not rotate. The thread should come off the top of the cone to an arm guide above the cone. It should then go to the thread hole prior to the tensioner at the back of the bobbin winder before being lead forward to the bobbin spindle. Can you send a photo of your setup to matt@sailrite.com?



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Best Regards,
Matt Grant
Sailrite


Posted By: GDAVIS67
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:46pm
Thanks for that input. Yes, the old factory manual is difficult, but I have gone through this enough to have a good grasp on it (I think). The upper thread breaking has been intermittent and difficult to chase down. I do not have that issue in thinner assemblies with no seam seal though. I will get you a picture later today. Again, thanks for your help. I will also try the smaller needle and double check the winding procedure. It is set up the way you described.


Posted By: MattGrant
Date Posted: 08 November 2018 at 2:51pm
Sounds good. The timing process on the 211 should be similar to the Fabricator Sewing Machine. Have you looked at our guidebook at this link:

https://www.sailrite.com/PDF/2016_Fabricator_Guidebook.pdf


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Best Regards,
Matt Grant
Sailrite


Posted By: Tejas
Date Posted: 11 November 2018 at 11:35am
Below is a link to a thread with a video posted by Uwe for timing the Consew 225. Later in the thread poster rac1812 mentions using the video for timing a Singer 211. Another poster, gottaknow who is a sewing machine technician, mentions that the video includes setting the needle guard which seems to relate to your problem of "cutting thread, breaking needles, skipping stitches."

Uwe has several excellent industrial sewing machine videos on youtube.

http://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/65882-how-to-video-on-timing-the-hook-on-a-consew-225-singer-111w155-class-machine/



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Beneteau First 36.7

Juki LU-1508N
Bernina 217N with CAM Reader
Singer 99 with hand crank



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